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Talk:Bolter
Noted Possible Errors In the Construction section there is a line "Furthermore, the Space Marine warriors, or Astartes, are a breed of genetically-enhanced supersoldiers." which seems to add nothing to the page and doesn't make much sense, I question it's use or at the very least it needs rewording. In the same area there is a line "Astartes Chapters have been known to go through a small '''stockpile of rounds in a single campaign." (emphasis mine) that to me doesn't really make sense, a small stockpile doesn't seem like much, maybe a "whole stockpile" or "several small stockpiles" or something would make more sense. the Notable Variants section has a list of variants but not much information on some of them, that might be because little information is known but if nothing is known about the pattern than it isn't really a known variant, right? OmegaXicor (talk) 14:28, December 1, 2012 (UTC) Misconceptions about auto/burst/semi-auto fire. '''Misconceptions about auto/burst/semi-auto fire. Semi-auto fire means a single round is expended with every pull of the trigger. Real world examples being Colt M1911, Beretta 92, Walther PPK pistols and others like them and the British L1A1 battle rifle. Burst fire allows for several shots, up to a specific number, to be fired with a single trigger pull. Single shots can still be fired by pulling and releasing the trigger. Holding the trigger will fire the number of rounds denoted by the weapons's burst fire mode. The trigger must be released and then pulled again to fire more rounds. Real world examples are: Colt M16A2 and M16A4 assault rifles - can fire in single shot (semi-automatic) or burst fire (maximum of three rounds per trigger pull) modes; H&K MP5A4 and MP5A5 submachine guns - can fire in semi-auto, three round burst or fully automatic modes. A fully automatic weapon will, if its trigger is held, continue to fire until its ammunition is expended. --Stickie It's probably the point of your post but isn't Semi-Auto that you fire three-five bullets per press of the trigger? OmegaXicor (talk) 10:06, December 16, 2012 (UTC) Nope. Semi-auto is one bullet per trigger pull, with the gun chambering the next round and re-cocking itself automatically. Burst fire (what you described) is usually thought of as an intermediate fire mode, between semi and fully auto. An example of a gun that does all three is an H&K MP5A5, as I mentioned above. The fire selector switch has four settings: Safe - pulling the trigger does nothing; Semi - pulling the trigger fires one round only. Holding the trigger has no further effect; 3 round burst - pulling and quickly releasing the trigger will fire single shots. Holding the trigger down will fire a maximum of three shots; Full auto - As with burst fire, pulling and releasing the trigger will fire single shots, or short bursts if held slightly longer. Holding the trigger down makes the gun fire until all its ammo is gone. --Stikki I'm not saying you are wrong because that makes sense, and sounds like you know whereas I am remembering from other sources, but I thought Automatic is as you describe and Semi-Automatic is "halfway between automatic and 'manual'" (I really don't know what "single shot" should be called which may be proof I am wrong) where you fire three-to-five rounds. Are your examples American weapons where mine are British, perhaps there are differences? --OmegaXicor There is no difference. "Manual" is also referred to as Bolt-Action. It involves you cocking the gun yourself (Like the Winchester Repeater or the WW1 Gewehr 98) Burst Fire is, however, considered a transition phrase and it is widely debated if it should be considered a real name for the fire mode, while some press to call it FCA or FCAF (Forced Controlled Auto or Forced Controlled Automatic Firing) as it "forces" the user to only expend 3 bullets (give or take) at a time. They have not gotten much support though. Legionaire22 18:34, December 16, 2012 (UTC) O.K., guys this discussion, while certainly interesting, is over. Move this to the forums if you wish to continue it. This is a Talk page. If you are not going to talk specifically about the content of the article the discussion belongs on the forums. Please move your discussion there, as I will be wiping this section in the next day or so. Thanks. Montonius (talk) 02:20, December 17, 2012 (UTC) Is it wise to wipe out the discussion when the errors I pointed out haven't been corrected? --S Well, you still have not pointed out any error in this article. Please indicate the line and the exact location of the error (s) in question in the article. In future, point this out to me or to Algrim Whitefang if you want an error corrected, please do not start a long discussion on a Talk Page. Thanks. Montonius (talk) 04:04, December 17, 2012 (UTC) The article's description of the bolter's different fire modes gets "semi-auto" and "burst fire" mixed up. That's what I was hoping to correct with my initial post. Sorry if I wasn't clear. What, exactly, are the Talk Pages for if not discussions like this? Not being snarky - just puzzled... --S Two more places in the article with similar errors - Look for, "Mark IV Pattern," and, "Perinetus Mark II Solo Pattern." --Stix Again, if you find an error, tell an admin, don't put it here, it won't be found. Montonius (talk) 19:28, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Additions Maybe it would be a good idea to have a section on Boltgun attachments e.g. scope, chainsaw bayonet, etc. Shas'o'Kais (talk) 10:06, February 1, 2013 (UTC) Boltgun Lore Update Hi all, Does the Lore for the nature of a Bolt and Boltguns need updating? I have re-written a section featured here below, I think my point is made in my re-write so I won't go on about it. It is a common misconception across the Imperium that bolt rounds are entirely self-propelled under their own rocket power – featuring a small charge that simply ejects the round from the barrel (under the rationale that the rocket would over-pressure the barrel otherwise). If this were the case, the boltgun would not have to be so massive and rugged, it would also render the weapon almost completely useless at ranges of less than 10 or 20 metres and not fully effective until out past 50 metres. In reality the boltgun features an extremely robust barrel, a large contributor to the boltgun’s physical bulk, this allows a potent explosive primary propellant to be used, similar to conventional kinetic firearms, capable of accelerating the bolt to supersonic velocity in the short length of the barrel. The rocket propellant in the bolt itself safely ignites within the barrel, but does not contribute greatly to barrel pressure (as even archaic explosively propelled firearms produce extreme barrel pressures, the short timescale before the round leaves the barrel means that this is rarely an issue once a minimum technological capacity for metallurgy is passed). As the round leaves the barrel, excess propellant gases and unburned propellant are vented through ports in the sides of the gun muzzle. This reduces recoil and muzzle flare and also helps produce the distinctive “bark” of a bolter report. Due to the exceptionally powerful propellants used, such that would destroy a lesser firearm, a large muzzle flash is produced which would not help a space marine’s vision without these gas ejection ports. After leaving the barrel, a conventional kinetic round would immediately begin to slow down, reducing potency and energy-on-target with every metre of travel downrange. Not so with a boltgun, as the rocket is able to maintain the round velocity over the full accurate range of the round (about 300m) so the round has the same capacity for harming an opponent whether the target is ten metres away or one hundred. At close ranges the unburned rocket propellant is sufficient to cause a quite significant incendiary effect, enhancing its combat effectiveness at close range, though the resulting pyrotechnic display can be quite unnerving to an unprotected human at close proximity. P1t1o (talk) 17:09, February 7, 2013 (UTC) where can I find the information on these helfrost bolt rounds?20:42, March 17, 2015 (UTC)